tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post7860531607702700069..comments2024-02-18T19:36:43.844+11:00Comments on theatre notes: Review: GraceAlison Croggonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-41490555267429776702009-04-03T22:55:00.000+11:002009-04-03T22:55:00.000+11:00its goodits goodSmall business web site designhttp://www.creativewebsitedesigner.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-13584706781953318422009-01-27T11:42:00.000+11:002009-01-27T11:42:00.000+11:00Hmm. I wonder what I would think of the film? You ...Hmm. I wonder what I would think of the film? You prompted me to read the play review and, well, you have to admit that my aesthetic is consistent!Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-77738842109634539582009-01-27T01:10:00.000+11:002009-01-27T01:10:00.000+11:00No, I didn't make it after all that. I was discuss...No, I didn't make it after all that. I was discussing the debate here with a friend who suggested that I go and see "Doubt" which, he believed, more likely to get my juices going. And he was correct. I never caught the play in any of its incarnations, but I found the film version quite compelling. Now I am going to search this blog for your review of the play ... which I hope I find.Geoffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05409350618909242278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-53088745348628710832009-01-25T18:41:00.000+11:002009-01-25T18:41:00.000+11:00Thanks Geoffrey - did you ever get to the play? An...Thanks Geoffrey - did you ever get to the play? And did your fundamentalist atheism get some nice exercise? <BR/><BR/>Apologies for being offline. I have had (non-theatrical) Reasons, but all is well. <BR/><BR/>And thanks too to Henry (phew). <BR/><BR/>As far as Grace is concerned, I've said my piece (several times over!) If this play was intended to spark discussion, it sure fulfilled its brief.Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-44366592835054775702009-01-25T17:33:00.000+11:002009-01-25T17:33:00.000+11:00First, I disclose my prejudice: I like my theatre ...First, I disclose my prejudice: I like my theatre cerebral (like<BR/>Michael Frayn's <I>Copenhagen</I>, Tom Stoppard's <I>Arcadia</I>,<BR/>Stephen Sewell's <I>It Just Stopped</I>, Ron Elisha's anything). There<BR/>are scenes in <I>The West Wing</I> in which we see "a civilised<BR/>debate". I personally never find this dull. (As it happens, I also<BR/>like other sorts of theatre.)<BR/><BR/>Such Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-32656489630528241342009-01-25T17:26:00.000+11:002009-01-25T17:26:00.000+11:00Hi Alison,<<<<<<<<Warning&...Hi Alison,<BR/><BR/><<<<<<<<<B>Warning</B>>>>>>>>><BR/>This post contains lots of meta analysis not<BR/>directly related to the play. It's also quite<BR/>long. Further, I apologise in advance if I express<BR/>myself clumsily: there are some tricky issues to<BR/>broach. <BR/>________End Warning________<BR/><BR/><BR/>It's all about taste - andAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-18523834287049208012009-01-19T13:36:00.000+11:002009-01-19T13:36:00.000+11:00Happy New Year everyone! I am greatly enjoying thi...Happy New Year everyone! I am greatly enjoying this conversation, and the point (which I think is pertinent to offer) is that I was not considering going to see "Grace". Now, as a result of Ms TN's review and the ensuing debate, I'm thinking I should probably go along. The Fundamental Atheist in me is stirring for a stretch.<BR/><BR/>The other point here is that Theatre is often so of its time Geoffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05409350618909242278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-8038745326100438832009-01-18T07:52:00.000+11:002009-01-18T07:52:00.000+11:00Thanks for your post, Simbo. I'm not sure about th...Thanks for your post, Simbo. I'm not sure about the term "genre" here, it's kind of slippery. Moreover, I am extremely uncertain about distinctions between style and content in art, since in my view one emerges out of the other.<BR/><BR/>This review, perhaps, being a case in point. Maybe people are responding to the style rather than what I said? - the lapels and the vapours and everything. The Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-18490998549883520552009-01-17T23:04:00.000+11:002009-01-17T23:04:00.000+11:00Aargh, incomplete sentence left in there... to fin...Aargh, incomplete sentence left in there... to finish that one off ...<BR/><BR/>It just seems to take away from the idea of judging an individual work on its own merits if you dismiss it particularly for saying any particular genre is good or bad ... genre is meant to be the wrapping, not the content, surely?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-19265309902199543662009-01-17T22:59:00.000+11:002009-01-17T22:59:00.000+11:00Okay, perhaps I should clarify...There are certain...Okay, perhaps I should clarify...<BR/><BR/>There are certain plays (and, from the sound of things, Grace is one of them) where the artifice of the characters representing individuals with rounded personalities disappears, and they become, more or less, puppets for various statements by the author (and .. um, well, I'd certianly say Larry Kramer's "Normal Heart" is one of those ... the cast of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-32862496854510817702009-01-17T19:42:00.000+11:002009-01-17T19:42:00.000+11:00Thanks Abe - I've always thought Brustein an excel...Thanks Abe - I've always thought Brustein an excellent model of an engaged critic, and a standard to aspire to. (Btw, you have a much better memory for my reviews than I do - thanks for the reminder).Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-89110085852427376672009-01-17T11:50:00.000+11:002009-01-17T11:50:00.000+11:00Hi Alison, speaking of "merciless critique", you m...Hi Alison, <BR/><BR/>speaking of "merciless critique", you may recall that I mentioned Robert Brustein's review of Amadaeus to you recently as an example of what a hatchet job really looks like.<BR/><BR/>Brustein's opening line: "Peter Shaffer's Amadeus is about the ravaging of genius by mediocrity. This seems to be not only the subject of the play but it's prime motivation." A few lines later heAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-77819892349982411712009-01-17T10:02:00.000+11:002009-01-17T10:02:00.000+11:00Hi Simbo - I was putting the review in perspective...Hi Simbo - I was putting the review in perspective. It <I>is</I> just a bloody newspaper review. I've defended what I said in lots of other ways, all of which you seem to resolutely ignore. What I'm getting here is a kind of outrage that I should dare to think, a questioning of my right to express anything beyond the anodyne prose of press releases. I would suggest that thinking and questioning Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-25142012961237732372009-01-17T07:27:00.000+11:002009-01-17T07:27:00.000+11:00I understand that this genre of writing gets your ...I understand that this genre of writing gets your dander up rather a lot (and your review does have a distinct odour of "I review plays, this is an essay, why do I have to put up with this?") <BR/><BR/>The answer is.. you don't, but, given it's a case of "I don't like the genre" rather than "I don't like this specific play", it sort of raises the question ... why is the Oz sending you to review Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-25067621494837736142009-01-15T23:42:00.000+11:002009-01-15T23:42:00.000+11:00Thanks Anon 2 (it really is less confusing if you ...Thanks Anon 2 (it really is less confusing if you don't want to use your real name to use a nom de plume, you just click the "name/url" option). You make fair points. <BR/><BR/>Quod scripsi scripsi. I'm not going to defend this review to the end (it's just a bloody newspaper review), but I don't think I've anything to apologise for. I reckon these sorts of plays are very hard to write Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-2214115941554614112009-01-15T23:06:00.000+11:002009-01-15T23:06:00.000+11:00An entirely different anonymous to above. My respo...An entirely different anonymous to above. <BR/><BR/>My response to the question so dramatically put with the grabbing of the lapels and the screaming why oh why did they not just write an essay - i would say - in fact I'm sure - that Grayling would have written many essays and maybe an essay doesn't have any of the life a play can give to ideas.<BR/><BR/>Yes - when watching i could see the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-3349736212360864702009-01-15T11:44:00.000+11:002009-01-15T11:44:00.000+11:00So let the final word be yours. It seems pretty cl...So let the final word be yours. It seems pretty clear to me who needs to be "right".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-84897879182698459322009-01-15T07:17:00.000+11:002009-01-15T07:17:00.000+11:00Why is it "catty" to honestly describe o...Why is it "catty" to honestly describe one's experience of a work? As Goosecap says above (thanks Goosecap) I was actually quite fair, given that I really didn't enjoy myself. And to not note my response would have been indeed in bad faith. I don't go to the theatre to deliberately have a bad time.<BR/><BR/>As it was, I did indeed describe it on its own terms - I took the Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-5210329504016322662009-01-15T00:26:00.001+11:002009-01-15T00:26:00.001+11:00Your comment about taking the time to read your th...Your comment about taking the time to read your thoughts on Kushner, Miller et al is fair. Ditto the richness about drawing conclusions about your personal taste. <BR/><BR/>But I stand by my summation of your review being catty and hyperbolic. Not because I need to be "right" but because of your failure to assess the production on its own terms, a phrase of your own that you've posted on this Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-74830311784887217652009-01-15T00:26:00.000+11:002009-01-15T00:26:00.000+11:00I'm puzzled by Mister Anonymous' comments. So, Ms...I'm puzzled by Mister Anonymous' comments. So, Ms TN's review of GRACE is 'shitting' on the playwrights? The review is 'destructive and hyperbolic'? I've read the review, quite a few times, just to make sure, and it doesn't seem, to me, to be any of these things. It's actually quite mild, saying quite a number of nice, positive, heart warming things, given that Ms TN didn't enjoy the play: Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-45180231177312096562009-01-14T23:51:00.000+11:002009-01-14T23:51:00.000+11:00No, I wasn't saying that you had to background you...No, I wasn't saying that you had to background yourself on my work if you wanted to disagree with my take on <I>Grace</I>. But I was suggesting that, before you take it upon yourself to suggest that I hate "plays" and therefore shouldn't review certain specific playwrights, it might be an idea to check out what I actually have put on record about them; and that it's a little rich to draw Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-66013163214528865572009-01-14T23:18:00.000+11:002009-01-14T23:18:00.000+11:00Apologies if you found my post "abusive". That was...Apologies if you found my post "abusive". That was not my intention. Smart-arsed perhaps, but not abusive. Really though, I don't think my tone was any more "abusive" than your review, which of course I read in full. You throw the first stone by shitting on the playwrights, the theatre-makers and the MTC for programming the play from such a great "I'm so theatrically evolved, anti-Aristotlean" Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-27907658772031035472009-01-14T01:16:00.000+11:002009-01-14T01:16:00.000+11:00Dear anonymous,"Your readership is not really inte...Dear anonymous,<BR/><BR/>"Your readership is not really interested in your likes and dislikes."<BR/><BR/>Maybe it's me, but it seems a hilarious thing to say to any critic.<BR/><BR/>I suggest that if you don't like "critics", don't read them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-90746320000892715602009-01-14T00:30:00.000+11:002009-01-14T00:30:00.000+11:00If you bothered to read what I have written about ...If you bothered to read what I have written about Arthur Miller and Tony Kushner's work, Anon (why is it always Anon? not even the courage of a nom de plume!) you would see that in fact I admire the work of those two writers a lot. Longish considerations are readily available on this site, if you care to look.<BR/><BR/>I like plays. I just didn't like this play. I like Ibsen and Strindberg and Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-81812321505414034982009-01-13T23:02:00.000+11:002009-01-13T23:02:00.000+11:00Your review of "Grace", not the show, was frankly ...Your review of "Grace", not the show, was frankly infuriating. If you don't like "plays", don't review them. Your readership is not really interested in your likes and dislikes. Your reviews seem less interested in providing a genuine discussion and capturing of a work but more in, as David Mamet writes about critics, an invitation to the reader to find fault, licensing a vicarious Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com