tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post6514447016478571994..comments2024-02-18T19:36:43.844+11:00Comments on theatre notes: On being niceAlison Croggonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-47069361044656031702006-12-19T00:09:00.000+11:002006-12-19T00:09:00.000+11:00Hi John
Great to see you here. And thanks very mu...Hi John<br /><br />Great to see you here. And thanks very much! As for the patience and rationality - long practice. I've run a poetry mailing list for years. Theatre practitioners ain't got nothing on poets.<br /><br />You're very right about the role of the amateur - which of course derives from the Latin "to love".Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-80111116027951829802006-12-18T23:21:00.000+11:002006-12-18T23:21:00.000+11:00Dear all,
I am new to blogs (sorry, I promise to ...Dear all,<br /><br />I am new to blogs (sorry, I promise to move into the 21st C soon) but I have found this discussion fascinating and horrifying by turns. Someone alerted me to it because you referred in your blog, Ben, to my Short and Sweet Sydney review. I have not seen Short and Sweet Melbourne and of Ming-Zhu's original comments and the subsequent discussion I have only read what is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-9185346463067827762006-12-12T17:01:00.000+11:002006-12-12T17:01:00.000+11:00Hi Ben,
As usual your posts are very clear and we...Hi Ben,<br /><br />As usual your posts are very clear and well expressed. Thank you.<br /><br />I think Mark Cleary is the Artistic Director of Short & Sweet International - he has no input to the Artistic make up of Short & Sweet Melbourne.<br /><br />The Bryan Innocent email was incorrect and very stupid. I'm not sure who sent it out but it was almost as bad as Ming's post. Just stirred things Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-59568235863512752212006-12-08T23:32:00.000+11:002006-12-08T23:32:00.000+11:00It's regretful some of those responses became pers...<i>It's regretful some of those responses became personal but I guess Ming's initial blog could be seen as indeed a personal attack on participants in Week 1 ?</i><br /><br />Hmm. I'm not sure about the reasoning behind this comment.<br /><br />To say that what she saw was "abysmal" was not to imply that each participant as a person was marked by a permanent abysmal quality. It did not preclude Ben Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16654820455368893078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-30865994539640447962006-12-08T21:18:00.000+11:002006-12-08T21:18:00.000+11:00Thanks Sam for the heads up. And I will follow you...Thanks Sam for the heads up. And I will follow your links with interest (I have chores at the moment...tiaras to polish etc)<br /><br />Actually I don't think it was MZ who used the term 'curatorial', I think it was George Hunka who introduced the distinction as a useful characterisation of her major critical objection - a characterisation that I was happy to use - thus apologies if I'm Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-80655835612496266842006-12-08T18:51:00.000+11:002006-12-08T18:51:00.000+11:00Excellent point TQ.
But does MZ even know the pro...Excellent point TQ.<br /><br />But does MZ even know the process that she is criticising. The mere fact of calling it "curatorial" is wrong in the first place.<br /><br />There is no Artistic Director in Short & Sweet - just an Artistic Co-ordinator, which is mainly an admin role.<br /><br />The assessors assess the plays - decide on the top scripts - that are then distributed to directors who Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-64805867114768161282006-12-08T18:21:00.000+11:002006-12-08T18:21:00.000+11:00BD and MD we have here a real difficulty. Those of...BD and MD we have here a real difficulty. Those of us who are not involved in Short and Sweet and who have never met Minkshoe have read the original post - as an aside I wish Minkshoe would revive her post so some of the less literate posters would go back to her site - this is how it opens:<br /><br />'I'm doing something that I'm finding quite difficult, and I'm sure plenty will think it a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-36490887863550726552006-12-08T17:45:00.000+11:002006-12-08T17:45:00.000+11:00You know what B.D.? That comment only looks disre...You know what B.D.? That comment only looks disrepectful. In France, major publicly funded theatre companies, as big as they get, tour shows to the provinces and, yes, they will perform for the townsfolk in your kitchen. <br /><br />How insulting.Chris Boydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215203610745043810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-61174941741568260202006-12-08T17:28:00.000+11:002006-12-08T17:28:00.000+11:00Alison,
Read the posts ! No one is criticising Mi...Alison,<br /><br />Read the posts ! No one is criticising Ming's right to say what she said ! Just the way she said it.<br /><br />She was extremely unconstructive, vitriolic and abusive. <br /><br />She was also not commenting as a critic or audience member but as a fellow participant. <br /><br />Also she didn't pay anything to watch the show - it was a dress rehearsal.<br /><br />Your Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-4470411127508448852006-12-08T16:16:00.000+11:002006-12-08T16:16:00.000+11:00Hi Madeline
I think if you put your work out in p...Hi Madeline<br /><br />I think if you put your work out in public and ask the public to pay to see it, then you have to aware that not everyone is going to like it. Some people will be disrespectful. Sometimes those who are most disrespectful are those who are most respectful of theatre itself. Some are disrespectful because they hate theatre. Some people will call it poop. That's how it goes.<brAlison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-42815633324690304582006-12-08T15:57:00.000+11:002006-12-08T15:57:00.000+11:00There is no question that everyone has the right t...There is no question that everyone has the right to their opinion without fear of being attacked. However, what has been completely lost (because of its removal) is any examination of the content in the initial post.<br /><br />Ming was very strong and not very constructive in the language used to criticize the festival and the productions in the first week. Suggesting that attendance at the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-26908526364327915982006-12-08T15:54:00.000+11:002006-12-08T15:54:00.000+11:00Puh-lease posters: note that Nicole, Avi, Adam, a...Puh-lease posters: note that Nicole, Avi, Adam, and now Matt have "strongly disagreed" with Ming-Zhu in these comments, and have been listened to with courtesy. Maybe read their posts to see how they managed to express their strongly held opinions without dragging the debate into what's being accurately called a "cat fight". Is it any coincidence that all these posts are anonymous? I don't Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-55658593166447431832006-12-08T15:42:00.000+11:002006-12-08T15:42:00.000+11:00How can one maintain a meaningful discussion when ...How can one maintain a meaningful discussion when so many (or is it just one) participants remain unnamed? Come on guys, have the courage of your conviction.Paul Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10965628567103267009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-38073064219869935912006-12-08T15:39:00.000+11:002006-12-08T15:39:00.000+11:00"To strongly disagree with her comments on this an..."To strongly disagree with her comments on this and other sites, only leads to the poster being attacked, so I won't. Long live freedom of speech (!)" <br /><br />Before you comment again, you might like to consult a dictionary. After 'attack' try 'personal'. <br /><br />Your argumant sucks. That's not a personal attack, it's a critical observation.Chris Boydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215203610745043810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-5220936787418683292006-12-08T15:09:00.000+11:002006-12-08T15:09:00.000+11:00It's really funny - you all complain Ming was lync...It's really funny - you all complain Ming was lynched.<br /><br />But then as soon as anyone disagrees with you - you all lynch them. <br /><br />What a joke !<br /><br />I agree with the last poster - "if you disagree with her comments it just leads to the poster being attacked". <br /><br />Practice what you preach - please !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-11237449394579410282006-12-08T14:50:00.000+11:002006-12-08T14:50:00.000+11:00Ming says:
"I am formally, earnestly and honestly...Ming says:<br /><br />"I am formally, earnestly and honestly talking with Short and Sweet organisers in a civil and mediated context. There is no animosity whatsoever between myself and the festival. We are talking openly and will continue to."<br /><br />Ming has not met with/talked at length with the Arts Centre/Short & Sweet. She has requested a meeting which is being considered, and if it Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-13969110030603084232006-12-08T14:32:00.000+11:002006-12-08T14:32:00.000+11:00As a fascinated outsider to this cyber cat-fight, ...As a fascinated outsider to this cyber cat-fight, could I make a simple request that everyone have the courage (indeed the common courtesy) to name themselves rather than remain anonymous in their comments? <br /><br />It seems a bit strange to continually make recourse to being 'personally attacked' when one's personage remains unknown to the other participants in a debate.<br /><br />Ben Hjorth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-43093937086238414362006-12-08T14:20:00.000+11:002006-12-08T14:20:00.000+11:00And Chris,
You're clearly passionate about your a...And Chris,<br /><br />You're clearly passionate about your anti Short & Sweet feelings but there's no need to personally attack me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-75886957943160173072006-12-08T14:15:00.001+11:002006-12-08T14:15:00.001+11:00Sorry, comments crossed in the ether. (I'm too bl...Sorry, comments crossed in the ether. (I'm too bloody slow a typist.)Chris Boydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215203610745043810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-90492434368393743352006-12-08T14:15:00.000+11:002006-12-08T14:15:00.000+11:00Thanks for your considered and well thought out re...Thanks for your considered and well thought out reply Alison - as usual - but let me quote from Ming's original blog: <br /><br />"I felt compelled to counter the severely negative emotional and psychological effects of my Tuesday night, spent sitting for two hours (which I'm never getting back, by the way), in the bowels of the Arts Centre, suffering through the sludge which was the Open Dress Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-27030859382884034762006-12-08T14:13:00.000+11:002006-12-08T14:13:00.000+11:00Is this like, er, perverse psychology or something...Is this like, er, perverse psychology or something? Trying to undermine Alison, Ben and George's defence of Ming-Zhu by manufacturing some kind of pre-existing relationship between players? <br /><br />George is in New York and had never heard of Ming-Zhu a week ago, I'm guessing. I'm unaware of any private/personal relationship between Alison and Ming-Zhu. <br /><br />Ben has worked with herChris Boydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215203610745043810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-4671640811426227742006-12-08T14:05:00.000+11:002006-12-08T14:05:00.000+11:00Sarah, as I said, is welcome to air her views here...Sarah, as I said, is welcome to air her views here, as are others who disagree strongly (maybe read the comments through properly, there are quite a few here who disagree strongly with Ming-Zhu). It is not imtimidatory to ask that Sarah observe the same courtesies that others do here. These are not incompatible with holding strong views, but they do involve avoiding ad hominem attack.<br /><br />Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-55705764917193966682006-12-08T13:29:00.000+11:002006-12-08T13:29:00.000+11:00This argument has nothing to do with Ming's right ...This argument has nothing to do with Ming's right to express an opinion or put it on a blog - it is the way she chose to do it and the highly emotional and aggressive language she used. That is the issue here.<br /><br />The blog was also full of a number of factual inaccuracies. All she needed to do was read the information readily available on the Short & Sweet website. Did she read any of thatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-46499815266257763222006-12-08T13:23:00.000+11:002006-12-08T13:23:00.000+11:00Forget that last question Ben. Just read your comm...Forget that last question Ben. Just read your comments on your own blog.<br /><br />All I would say is that Ming's original comments were so inflammatory and direct in their attacks on Week 1 participants that she should probably have expected a quite heated response.<br /><br />It's pity it got so out of hand and good to see you jumping to her defense.<br /><br />As a Sydney based writer, who Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-56214820401306519392006-12-08T13:19:00.000+11:002006-12-08T13:19:00.000+11:00Hi Alison,
What an interesting week to be a Direct...Hi Alison,<br />What an interesting week to be a Director in Short & Sweet. I have posted these comments ion my own blog but thought it was onyl fair to add them here as well.<br /><br />So much discussion, online and at Curve Bar after each show about the criticism of the festival by minkshoe which has now disappeared from her blog.<br /><br />My feelings are:<br /><br /><br /><br />Everyone hasMatt Scholtenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12847496506580627207noreply@blogger.com