tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post5770529927326800113..comments2024-02-18T19:36:43.844+11:00Comments on theatre notes: A matter of art: Henson and MillsAlison Croggonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-46368060220718963542010-08-13T04:01:19.270+10:002010-08-13T04:01:19.270+10:00I have absoloutely nothing to contribute to this c...I have absoloutely nothing to contribute to this conversation other than to say how much I'm enjoying it. <br /><br />Lately I've been very unfaithful in my lurking and have been spending alot of my time at various climate blogs. I was wondering what it was that I was missing...ah yes...civility.<br /><br />All the best<br /><br />Theatre QueenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-36451759592632764942010-08-11T23:00:50.621+10:002010-08-11T23:00:50.621+10:00I confess I was being a little mischievous when I ...I confess I was being a little mischievous when I mentioned <em>Two-and-a-Half Men</em>, but rather less so with the others.<br /><br />The prejudice against film as an art form didn't last long -- and neither did it for popular music or comic books (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Seldes" rel="nofollow">Gilbert Seldes</a>, where art thou?). I'm sure video games would find George Hunkahttp://www.superfluitiesredux.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-11186922997064019502010-08-11T09:22:32.624+10:002010-08-11T09:22:32.624+10:00Hi George - I'm beginning to feel a bit schizo...Hi George - I'm beginning to feel a bit schizoid. I've been having the same conversation elsewhere on the interwebs...<br /><br />You missed my qualification, which stipulated that something becomes art if it reaches "levels of expressivity concomitant with what one expects of art". Which those three graphic artists/story writers, in very different ways, to my mind do. Two and aAlison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-51072070154966586532010-08-11T00:13:13.580+10:002010-08-11T00:13:13.580+10:00Well then, why not? Though why not also include Tw...Well then, why not? Though why not also include Two-and-a-Half-Men, Superman and Lady Gaga too? And I do indeed enjoy these (no elitist I, either). Whether that's the kind of art we're talking about doesn't really matter, does it?<br /><br />I imagine that news and opinion editors and journalists are just as informed and committed as arts editors and journalists, by the way, and if George Hunkahttp://www.superfluitiesredux.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-50132980997231236512010-08-10T23:52:13.453+10:002010-08-10T23:52:13.453+10:00PS If we're going to defend such things as epi...PS <i>If we're going to defend such things as episodic television, or comic books, or rock-and-roll music as art (as we in our fuzzily democratic way are happy to do, no elitists we), then we can simply respond that as critics we believe that this is art as well.</i><br /><br />Well, if such forms reach levels of expressivity concomitant with what one expects of art - as indeed they can - whyAlison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-9754833900424096962010-08-10T23:48:40.339+10:002010-08-10T23:48:40.339+10:00What's the chronology of imagination? Beckett ...What's the chronology of imagination? Beckett imagined out of the realities he witnessed - which included WW2 and the destruction of Europe. Seeing that become a literal reality is pretty chilling tho.<br /><br />And again, yes, people will say they like entertainment, but hate art - ie, anything that's a "wank", that is perceived as elitist or difficult or exclusive, and that&#Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-44081364365539661492010-08-10T23:01:14.913+10:002010-08-10T23:01:14.913+10:00Re Moliere: that is, the title character who finds...Re Moliere: that is, the title character who finds he has been speaking prose (rather than liking art) for 40 years.George Hunkahttp://www.superfluitiesredux.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-14370807972975840432010-08-10T22:53:49.580+10:002010-08-10T22:53:49.580+10:00According to Beckett's Endgame, the planet bec...According to Beckett's <i>Endgame</i>, the planet became a toxic planet some time ago! Perhaps we're merely the embers.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm still going to defend my thesis that nobody in Australia really "hates art," even if they're talking about galleries and opera houses, and in part this is a product of the evolving definition of popular culture <i>as</i> art. If George Hunkahttp://www.superfluitiesredux.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-37380847006445560322010-08-10T09:46:22.204+10:002010-08-10T09:46:22.204+10:00Yes I love Melbourne for that, and the food, and I...Yes I love Melbourne for that, and the food, and I miss it terribly. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford to move back!!! I should never have sold that little terrace house in North Fitzroy for $150,000 (gulp). Even if it did buy me a 4 bedroom veranda circled Queenslander in Bris Vegas....where the search for the tile goes on and on and on and on and on....and the back deck frames the cultureEric Sykesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-34435343075158456082010-08-10T09:23:19.294+10:002010-08-10T09:23:19.294+10:00Hi Eric - that's hard to argue with. My daught...Hi Eric - that's hard to argue with. My daughter just finished reading Christina Stead's The Man Who Loved Children - one of the GREAT Australian novels - and last night we were wondering why Stead has been so forgotten here. Why is she not lauded, read, discussed? There was an article recently which discussed this book, but it was in the New York Times, for godsake. So many stories likeAlison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-53691955220562190352010-08-10T09:05:14.136+10:002010-08-10T09:05:14.136+10:00I love art, I am Australian. Many people in Austra...I love art, I am Australian. Many people in Australia love art. I am sorry but that's not my point.<br /><br />I am not talking about people. I am talking about a national identity. It is hard to talk about without being seen to call Australia..stupid or something, and that is not what I mean either.<br /><br />Art is not in, or even part of, the frame that shapes Australian identity. I wouldEric Sykesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-4832264386285048582010-08-10T09:03:51.470+10:002010-08-10T09:03:51.470+10:00Hi George - as a certain other happy fool said, if...Hi George - as a certain other happy fool said, if the fool would persist in his folly, he would become wise!<br /><br />A lot of things to respond to there. One, that there ARE people in Australia who have no problems in saying, loudly and clearly, that they hate art. For them it is a pretentious, elitist (meaning privileged) and morally questionable activity, practised by social parasites and Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-47806593332476722852010-08-10T05:47:27.187+10:002010-08-10T05:47:27.187+10:00(Since I argue for greater precision, it's onl...(Since I argue for greater precision, it's only right that I myself be more precise. I wrote that my readership was "decimated," which is not true: it is 10% of what it once was, not 90%. I stand corrected by Webster's. In which case it seems that the blog has become a somewhat foolish endeavor: a bit of a <i>folie</i> shared only by myself. But I am a happy fool.)George Hunkahttp://www.superfluitiesredux.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-55297695240674309402010-08-10T05:21:23.276+10:002010-08-10T05:21:23.276+10:00Perhaps the question needs to become more specific...Perhaps the question needs to become more specific. It's doubtful that anybody in Australia -- or North America, or Europe -- "hates" art. We all like art, just like we all like a healthy environment, justice, etc.; even those who stand accused of "hating" art will never admit doing so. And that's because they don't hate art. Certain kinds of aesthetic disciplines,George Hunkahttp://www.superfluitiesredux.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-82404352739736715972010-08-09T17:38:31.804+10:002010-08-09T17:38:31.804+10:00There's more to it than just worrying about wh...There's more to it than just worrying about whether people like art or not, as Mills in particular suggests. He gives some real reasons why we should be concerned by this apparent apathy.<br /><br />I'm Australian (sort of) and I like art. My kids are Australian too, and they do, and so do a lot of their friends. I know lots of Australians who like art, in fact, not all of them part of Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-87031160543088054472010-08-09T12:53:15.312+10:002010-08-09T12:53:15.312+10:00thanx al..good to have a report on the two togethe...thanx al..good to have a report on the two together. <br /><br />i think we have to just accept that australians don't like art (and all that goes with it) very much at all ;-) and while there are always exceptions that prove the rule, we could just stop worrying and get on with making it for people who do.<br /><br />we spend so much time being disappointed that art is not closer to the Eric Sykesnoreply@blogger.com