tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post7651321581752633368..comments2024-02-18T19:36:43.844+11:00Comments on theatre notes: Review: The Women of TroyAlison Croggonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-80861681907462063502009-03-11T10:39:00.000+11:002009-03-11T10:39:00.000+11:00MJ was amazing indeed, Tom. And you owe me two dri...MJ was amazing indeed, Tom. And you owe me two drinks.Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-90145524506357417102009-03-11T00:02:00.000+11:002009-03-11T00:02:00.000+11:00goodness gracious! if you made it to here I owe yo...goodness gracious! if you made it to here I owe you a glass of wine.<BR/><BR/>I'll buy you 2 if you join the barrie kosky rules club that i intend to start very soon.<BR/><BR/>and - incidentally - how great was melita jurisic???<BR/><BR/>tomUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01140841677727688049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-8285136977578474672008-11-26T23:27:00.000+11:002008-11-26T23:27:00.000+11:00I thought the play was fantastic, though even that...I thought the play was fantastic, though even that seems a bit silly to say given how tramatising it was. But who's robyn nevin? <BR/><BR/>mAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-55823680534759679832008-11-24T17:06:00.000+11:002008-11-24T17:06:00.000+11:00Adam--I wouldn't hold your breath. STC's program s...Adam--I wouldn't hold your breath. STC's program seems to be comedy and jolly japes next year. Be sure to wear your red clown nose...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-1249993396704589802008-11-24T15:26:00.000+11:002008-11-24T15:26:00.000+11:00Yes. I haven't read that one of Zizek's but Welcom...Yes. <BR/>I haven't read that one of Zizek's but Welcome to the Desert..., On Violence I have.<BR/>I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean here by 'self-directed' or George Oppen (wasn't he scapegoated as Un-American and then won a Pulitzer?).<BR/>George B's rhetoric of 'human dignity' (and not 'rights') and Clinton's 'obliterate' (referred to in this play too), are cynically hypocriticalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-85087795339996527002008-11-24T13:28:00.000+11:002008-11-24T13:28:00.000+11:00...actually, I'm a bit confused at this point. The......actually, I'm a bit confused at this point. The media coverage on freeing women from the tyranny of the Taliban concentrated on enlightened western attitudes as opposed to tyrannical fundamentalist repression. It was discredited right from the start - the rights of women got shunted aside pretty fast right when the western forces allied with the northern Afghani warlords, responsible in some Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-15673775480908080352008-11-24T13:07:00.000+11:002008-11-24T13:07:00.000+11:00Funny how those media images have shifted (to Soma...Funny how those media images have shifted (to Somalia now) as the cruel joke on Afghani women gets crueller... I recognise and acknowledge the argument, Adam. I read something similar from Zizek recently, where he was examining the western culture of Action - Do Something Now! - and how that fed directly into the mechanisms that perpetuate those same atrocities (economic as well as warlike). He'sAlison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-40527029836152353132008-11-24T11:57:00.000+11:002008-11-24T11:57:00.000+11:00Thanks again for the reference.Complexities abound...Thanks again for the reference.<BR/>Complexities abound but I think the root of the problem for me is how to recognize complicity. <BR/>Art, by supporting the values of the culture which are then used to justify violence - can become a weapon against the maker's intentions. <BR/>To be specific: the abuse of the women of Afghanistan was concentrated in media images, here and in the US, in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-55094500915297153842008-11-24T08:52:00.000+11:002008-11-24T08:52:00.000+11:00Hi Stephen - nice to see you here!Adam - if you ar...Hi Stephen - nice to see you here!<BR/><BR/>Adam - if you are idealistic, so be it. I'm not at all sure that's a bad thing. Can this play be used to justify violence? I think that's a bit of a stretch... <BR/><BR/>On the broader question of political engagement, I guess every individual artist will determine their own level. In each case, it's worth asking - is it too much? not enough? How much Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-87031333984659107342008-11-23T22:42:00.000+11:002008-11-23T22:42:00.000+11:00Hello. Adam and Alison, thanks for those fascinat...Hello. Adam and Alison, thanks for those fascinating provocations - which I am still getting my head around. Matthew, the proposition that Barrie would bring a parochial back-reference to a collaborating artist onto his stage beggars belief. Copyright @self for this one. Stephen (EP, Malthouse Theatre, presenter, Women of Troy)Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727208980789229825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-52038013491876981222008-11-23T21:30:00.000+11:002008-11-23T21:30:00.000+11:00I will definitely have a read of Masthead, correct...I will definitely have a read of Masthead, correct my ignorance. Sounds great.<BR/>On the other front, to not engage for fear of possible paternalism, and to have culture used to justify grossly disproportionate violence could be taking the bait ... it might be that surmounting the walls rather than digging in means being critical of the real reasons for this war. Is this idealistic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-65973684998686217152008-11-23T17:20:00.000+11:002008-11-23T17:20:00.000+11:00They're fascinating and uncomfortable questions, A...They're fascinating and uncomfortable questions, Adam. Jana was asking much the same sort of question about the violence towards women - does representing it so starkly somehow also perpetuate and legitimise is, however unwittingly?<BR/><BR/>I don't know if there is an answer to that. The problem with <I>not</I> "defacing that particularity" in this case might be the reproduction of a deeper Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-13453846503496062682008-11-23T15:49:00.000+11:002008-11-23T15:49:00.000+11:00Yes, so nice to be conversing again. I agree, the ...Yes, so nice to be conversing again. <BR/>I agree, the work is a stunning piece of theatre, superbly executed. <BR/>The industrialized camp/murder system has been used widely, conceived by the British in South Africa I believe. As Wright's script shows, so are many other forms of domination the same then and there as now and here. And the end result is the same, although the scale varies. And Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-12835773538557277462008-11-23T09:06:00.000+11:002008-11-23T09:06:00.000+11:00Hi AdamPhew, glad you popped up. To my understandi...Hi Adam<BR/><BR/>Phew, glad you popped up. To my understanding, the state of exception which the state arrogates to itself is the way the state defines its sovereign power, ie a necessary part of its self-defining. And is it so specific? In his essay on Camps (On the Camp?) Agamben defines the camp as potentially anywhere where law is "extraterritorial" - a football stadium, even a gated and Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-71606547828456967662008-11-23T00:20:00.000+11:002008-11-23T00:20:00.000+11:00Times they are confusin'. A very thought-provoking...Times they are confusin'. A very thought-provoking production. Just to add some things:<BR/>Giorgio Agamben's 'bare (nuda) life' refers to those deprived of all rights which he attributes to the camps of the Nazi state, a state which has been likened to the 'illegal combatants' in Guantanamo. Agamben's 'state of exception' refers to the suspension of the law during which a sovereign power (like Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-82312141706519226512008-11-22T11:42:00.000+11:002008-11-22T11:42:00.000+11:00I would like to apologise for my behaviour of late...I would like to apologise for my behaviour of late. <BR/><BR/>I have joined Miscreants Anonymous. I will be cured.<BR/><BR/>Alison, I have no idea what you look like, so I have no way of knowing if you look like Kim Gyngell in a wig or not. That was pure fancy - as were my suicide attempts.<BR/><BR/>I <I>do</I> however loathe Melbourne and all the dour sops who live there. <BR/><BR/>But - one Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-34774219085038073422008-11-22T10:29:00.000+11:002008-11-22T10:29:00.000+11:00Thanks for the subbing note. Duly corrected.I answ...Thanks for the subbing note. Duly corrected.<BR/><BR/>I answered all your points in this post in the post before it.Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-64768474719537803952008-11-22T10:21:00.000+11:002008-11-22T10:21:00.000+11:00Blah blah blah. My issue is with you taking Matthe...Blah blah blah. <BR/><BR/>My issue is with you taking Matthew's dumb comment so seriously and going on about Sydney audiences. It's not Sydney audiences. It's Matthew.<BR/><BR/>And I did read your response carefully, thanks Ms School Marm. And I did see your carefully positioned qualifier 'If that is so,' yet I still think you are pompous.<BR/><BR/>I do not have the sensibilities of a shockjock.<Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-29117994185381147252008-11-22T09:53:00.000+11:002008-11-22T09:53:00.000+11:00Anon, there's nothing more boring than a Sydney/Me...Anon, there's nothing more boring than a Sydney/Melbourne dingdong. If you were reading carefully (which anonymous commenters never seem to do) you would have seen the qualifier at the beginning of the sentence - "if that is so..." It's Matt who's claiming something about Sydney audiences, not me. You could have said that Sydney audiences aren't like that. After all, <I>The Women of Troy</I> is aAlison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-35328439184956997262008-11-21T23:14:00.000+11:002008-11-21T23:14:00.000+11:00Hey, Anon, we like Sydney very much. We're just ha...Hey, Anon, we like Sydney very much. We're just happy we don't have to live there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-65812417102955404152008-11-21T20:06:00.000+11:002008-11-21T20:06:00.000+11:00Matthew--perhaps I am being provocative, but to fo...Matthew--perhaps I am being provocative, but to follow your argument through--are you implying that the "signifier" of choosing Nevin to play the Queen whose once-glorious empire has been destroyed by vandals is a statement on the current state of affairs at STC? From any other director perhaps, but I don't think Kosky gives one second's thought to the internecine micro dramas of Sydney theatre. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-23660692587682872082008-11-21T18:35:00.000+11:002008-11-21T18:35:00.000+11:00'If that is so, I'm awfully glad I don't live in S...'If that is so, I'm awfully glad I don't live in Sydney.'<BR/><BR/>Are you 'awfully' glad, Alison? Drifting into pomposity, methinks...<BR/><BR/>I am getting ever so slightly tired of the self-congratulatory Arts in Melbourne, the masturbation fest which is the MIAFF - golly, to have so much serious ART, and such wide-ranging seriously considered commentary! <BR/><BR/>And the 'tracts on the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-62377847125318616452008-11-21T18:11:00.000+11:002008-11-21T18:11:00.000+11:00I'm not sure if I'm expressing this incorrectly or...I'm not sure if I'm expressing this incorrectly or not, Ms C, but you seem to be almost offended by what I'm suggesting. I will try to be a little clearer. What I'm <EM>not</EM> saying is that the entire evening was about watching the STC's former AD get knocked about. What I'm saying is that the reveal at the start of the production had an effect on the Sydney audience that was to some extent Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-67174931382311430872008-11-21T18:09:00.000+11:002008-11-21T18:09:00.000+11:00I disagree so much.I respect the craft - I think i...I disagree so much.<BR/><BR/>I respect the craft - I think it's well-made and all that. But I don't remember the last time my initial disliking of a performance built into full-scale fury by the next day.<BR/><BR/>Well. Perhaps <I>The Large Attendance in the Antechamber</I>. But that's another story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-88321149122155760882008-11-21T17:13:00.000+11:002008-11-21T17:13:00.000+11:00Hi Matt - If that is so, I'm awfully glad I don't ...Hi Matt - If that is so, I'm awfully glad I don't live in Sydney. Surely the audience's imagination can't have been wholly colonised and trivialised by celebrity culture? Surely some people have heard of "plays"? And where does that leave Nevin as an actor, which she is first, last and probably middle as well? <BR/><BR/>I'd be astonished if Kosky cast Nevin to give the audience the frisson of Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.com