tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post2622894832028224022..comments2024-02-18T19:36:43.844+11:00Comments on theatre notes: Olive as tragic hero: Summer of the Seventeenth DollAlison Croggonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-90084413051169785422012-05-18T18:40:09.252+10:002012-05-18T18:40:09.252+10:00im going to have to read the play again...i cant g...im going to have to read the play again...i cant get the understanding...that Olive is a tragic hero, honestly.leonid kariskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12454098464860517647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-61382489528612686562012-05-16T18:43:39.946+10:002012-05-16T18:43:39.946+10:00Hi Jane W,
The root comment was crass, and you...Hi Jane W,<br /><br />The root comment was crass, and you're quite right that Olive is mourning "that she might never again experience her sexuality through intimacy and love." But I think it's something more too. Olive has a horror of Pearl's prim middle-class judgement of her. She doesn't want to see herself as a 'loose woman', and what she has with Roo is an Cameron Woodheadhttp://cameronwoodhead.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-15897032930974111652012-05-15T19:21:47.435+10:002012-05-15T19:21:47.435+10:00in lots of ways we move now, into the sense of end...in lots of ways we move now, into the sense of endearment that our national identity has to give us...we need to intensely value where it is original and well meant, and aschew...some of the rest...<br />who has put a mind to where that place is...<br />i would say no one...<br />we are not what we were, but we are something very relevant on the world stage...i wonder what that is...leonid kariskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12454098464860517647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-43743811586461390402012-05-15T19:19:13.752+10:002012-05-15T19:19:13.752+10:00I'd say that changing the ending so Olive and ...I'd say that changing the ending so Olive and Roo marry changes the meaning substantially. I haven't seen the film, so I don't know what it's like: but it certainly won't be the play.Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-32821132064515366432012-05-15T19:11:34.210+10:002012-05-15T19:11:34.210+10:00changing the ending???
making the meaning differen...changing the ending???<br />making the meaning different...?<br />why would that need to be a resulting difference...[though of course in a small way it is]<br />this is a play of the everyday...that intersects with the ''fates'' understanding of things...it plays itself out in small bytes...that accrue in small ways to create a value of the judgment...[i think]<br />...hard leonid kariskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12454098464860517647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-46845366703980807332012-05-15T08:49:40.802+10:002012-05-15T08:49:40.802+10:00Not entirely sure what you mean, Leonid. Though I ...Not entirely sure what you mean, Leonid. Though I understand the main problem with the film is that they changed the ending so everything turned out happy.Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-78330259747978888992012-05-14T20:03:57.104+10:002012-05-14T20:03:57.104+10:00it also seems to me...that the major protagonist ...it also seems to me...that the major protagonist is the elephant in the room...alligned to a Greek tragedian understanding for how a society will eat itself of its works... <br />there is an almost normal...aspect to the doll...which does truly make it an australian classic...the ponderous movements of it players...playing out long understood priorities and an instinctive need to serve...leonid kariskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12454098464860517647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-18748691089726600712012-05-14T19:47:36.016+10:002012-05-14T19:47:36.016+10:00its interesting taking into an iphone connection i...its interesting taking into an iphone connection into, a conversation...<br /><br /> what has been missed. it seems to me<br />it is the inequivocable loss of ''the point of communication'' which is the matter of the play...<br />it seems to me that<br />the writer is primarily concerned with. the portents of the realities, that will surrender up the the loss...<br />and whatleonid kariskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12454098464860517647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-11809199160733421272012-05-13T09:30:52.529+10:002012-05-13T09:30:52.529+10:00Just realised that sounded pretty blunt! I'm o...Just realised that sounded pretty blunt! I'm on an iPhone in Darwin and trying not to make typos. Thanks for the comment, Jane.Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-85802580635058385672012-05-13T09:28:00.742+10:002012-05-13T09:28:00.742+10:00The condition of Emma - "sexless", eccen...The condition of Emma - "sexless", eccentric and alone - is what Olive has in front of her. Whether she has a root or not is a pretty trivial question, given what's at stake.Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-10821990681130937632012-05-13T08:21:54.211+10:002012-05-13T08:21:54.211+10:00Correction: I wasn't referring to the statemen...Correction: I wasn't referring to the statement made by Long Time Reader about "mourning...." It was Alison's comment I now realise. Just clarifying something for the sake of clarification. I'm not entirely sure how I got the "who was writing the materiaal" wrong,other than to say I've been reading a lot of blogs, after a fair amount of wine...Jane Winchesternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-1674349777556717652012-05-13T07:54:09.636+10:002012-05-13T07:54:09.636+10:00I don't think that Long Time Reader was referr...I don't think that Long Time Reader was referring to Olive mourning over the fact that she might never get laid again Cameron. It was meant as Olive facing the prospect that she might never again experience her sexuality through intimacy and love. From the beginning of time, women have had no trouble getting a casual root, regardless of whether they've been bar maids or queens. Of Jane Winchesternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-38576480452452180352012-05-04T14:08:52.140+10:002012-05-04T14:08:52.140+10:00I can't say I've read everything, by any m...I can't say I've read everything, by any means. Over to you, internets.Alison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-76746098960173455042012-05-04T13:34:10.591+10:002012-05-04T13:34:10.591+10:00I wish I could. If it's true there isn't a...I wish I could. If it's true there isn't any (and there must be, surely), Australian drama criticism is in even worse shape than I'd imagined.Cameron Woodheadhttp://cameronwoodhead.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-7173922494693517952012-05-04T08:51:30.154+10:002012-05-04T08:51:30.154+10:00Hi Cameron and Long Time Reader - Thanks for your ...Hi Cameron and Long Time Reader - Thanks for your comments. I wholly agree it's an obvious argument. But I did a fair bit of reading around the play, and I am yet to see anyone write about Olive as the major protagonist. Even the feminist commentary places Olive as a secondary character, with the actual drama being considered as belonging to Barney and Roo. Can you give me any pointers to whoAlison Croggonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398213223487458758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-7610458255177449822012-05-04T00:31:23.777+10:002012-05-04T00:31:23.777+10:00With respect, that Olive is the tragic hero in the...With respect, that Olive is the tragic hero in the Doll - even that her struggle is one against patriarchal convention, and for her own autonomy - seems incredibly obvious and uninspired. The 1995 MTC production with Geneveive Picot as Olive and Frankie J. Holden as Roo was an even stronger instantiation of your argument than Neil Armfield's recent production. Perhaps if you'd seen it youCameron Woodheadhttp://cameronwoodhead.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202906.post-68492757275784270382012-05-03T23:29:04.201+10:002012-05-03T23:29:04.201+10:00I agree with you on so many levels, but can't ...I agree with you on so many levels, but can't help saying "Of course Olive is the tragic hero!" <br /><br />Er... I think I need to explain. <br /><br />As a text, The Doll was part of my high-schooling in the late eighties and I have not yet seen it performed. Even then read it and its 'prequels' repeatedly in my twenties. Your commentary has made me re-examine my longtimereaderfirsttimecommenternoreply@blogger.com